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	<title>Comments on: Using Games to Tap Collective Intelligence</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.edery.org/2006/09/using-games-to-tap-collective-intelligence/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.edery.org/2006/09/using-games-to-tap-collective-intelligence/</link>
	<description>For those interested in the business of making good video games. Entrepreneurial spirit a must.</description>
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		<title>By: Matthias Orgler</title>
		<link>http://www.edery.org/2006/09/using-games-to-tap-collective-intelligence/comment-page-1/#comment-33947</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthias Orgler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jan 2007 12:43:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.edery.org/2006/06/using-games-to-tap-collective-intelligence/#comment-33947</guid>
		<description>This is definitely an interesting topic. Apart from collective intelligence and wisdom of crowds, I like the idea of turning work into play (who wouldn&#039;t ;o)). I enjoyed reading a whole issue of the Escapist about work and play (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/47). I think, more effort should be devoted to that direction: why keep that strict separation between work and play? For Huizinga and others it is a mere convention - not a law of nature. Julian Dibbell also saw that line blurring in &quot;Play Money&quot;.

The evolution must start from both sides: 1.) taking business applications and making them gradually more fun to work with (why has SAP to be so boring???) and 2.) taking games and using them to do &quot;meaningful&quot; (whatever that means) tasks as described in this post and its comments. The idea to add some of the collective intelligence by Jenkins to the mix is great!

My vision for the future is all the world doing fun stuff all day long and by doing that sustaining the economy and enhancing the collective wisdom :o). This might sound like utopia, but if you think of the weired ways games and &quot;real&quot; life already interact today...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is definitely an interesting topic. Apart from collective intelligence and wisdom of crowds, I like the idea of turning work into play (who wouldn&#8217;t ;o)). I enjoyed reading a whole issue of the Escapist about work and play (<a href="http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/47" rel="nofollow">http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/47</a>). I think, more effort should be devoted to that direction: why keep that strict separation between work and play? For Huizinga and others it is a mere convention &#8211; not a law of nature. Julian Dibbell also saw that line blurring in &#8220;Play Money&#8221;.</p>
<p>The evolution must start from both sides: 1.) taking business applications and making them gradually more fun to work with (why has SAP to be so boring???) and 2.) taking games and using them to do &#8220;meaningful&#8221; (whatever that means) tasks as described in this post and its comments. The idea to add some of the collective intelligence by Jenkins to the mix is great!</p>
<p>My vision for the future is all the world doing fun stuff all day long and by doing that sustaining the economy and enhancing the collective wisdom :o). This might sound like utopia, but if you think of the weired ways games and &#8220;real&#8221; life already interact today&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.edery.org/2006/09/using-games-to-tap-collective-intelligence/comment-page-1/#comment-14313</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Sep 2006 17:02:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.edery.org/2006/06/using-games-to-tap-collective-intelligence/#comment-14313</guid>
		<description>Sounds to me like Spore&#039;s Pollinated Content on steroids. 

At the core, what you&#039;re talking about here is finding interesting (and valuable) real-world applications for the decisions made by a mass of gamers. In Spore, if I understand correctly, the creatures you make (decisions) can become the basis for NPC races that other Spore players come across in their explorations of space (real-world applications). Additionally, it could be argued that the value add that this pollinated content brings to Spore will lead to more sales and a happy EA -- perhaps not as noble as some of your examples, but moving in the right direction.

An additional thought I had on this matter is in line with your &#039;major design challenge&#039; point. A big reason games like SimCity can be as accesible (and succesfull) as they are is that they take the complex (city planning) and streamline it to a much more managable level. Anything that isn&#039;t &#039;fun&#039; about running a city is left out of the game (as it should be). My question, then, is can a designer take a subject matter rife with &#039;boring&#039; tasks/decisions, turn it into a game that focuses on fun (so that it will amass enough players so as to give value to the wisdom of the crowd) while still allowing the developers to collect viable and applicable data for the real world. Would you really feel comfortable proposing a new zoning restriction for LA (taking into consideration all of the political, financial, moral and ethical issues) based off of the group-think of even a million SimCity gamers? It seems to me like what they would be proposing (indirectly) would almost certainly be an idealist situation that could never work due to all the stuff that _needs_ to be taken into consideration but that _isn&#039;t_ fun to play. 

I don&#039;t mean to harp on one specific example of yours (especially since you asked us not to) but I simply mean to reinforce the point that the &#039;design challenge&#039; of this might be an understatement. Real world = hard &amp; complex. Games = fun and &#039;simple&#039;. 

Great read, though. Really got me thinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds to me like Spore&#8217;s Pollinated Content on steroids. </p>
<p>At the core, what you&#8217;re talking about here is finding interesting (and valuable) real-world applications for the decisions made by a mass of gamers. In Spore, if I understand correctly, the creatures you make (decisions) can become the basis for NPC races that other Spore players come across in their explorations of space (real-world applications). Additionally, it could be argued that the value add that this pollinated content brings to Spore will lead to more sales and a happy EA &#8212; perhaps not as noble as some of your examples, but moving in the right direction.</p>
<p>An additional thought I had on this matter is in line with your &#8216;major design challenge&#8217; point. A big reason games like SimCity can be as accesible (and succesfull) as they are is that they take the complex (city planning) and streamline it to a much more managable level. Anything that isn&#8217;t &#8216;fun&#8217; about running a city is left out of the game (as it should be). My question, then, is can a designer take a subject matter rife with &#8216;boring&#8217; tasks/decisions, turn it into a game that focuses on fun (so that it will amass enough players so as to give value to the wisdom of the crowd) while still allowing the developers to collect viable and applicable data for the real world. Would you really feel comfortable proposing a new zoning restriction for LA (taking into consideration all of the political, financial, moral and ethical issues) based off of the group-think of even a million SimCity gamers? It seems to me like what they would be proposing (indirectly) would almost certainly be an idealist situation that could never work due to all the stuff that _needs_ to be taken into consideration but that _isn&#8217;t_ fun to play. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t mean to harp on one specific example of yours (especially since you asked us not to) but I simply mean to reinforce the point that the &#8216;design challenge&#8217; of this might be an understatement. Real world = hard &amp; complex. Games = fun and &#8217;simple&#8217;. </p>
<p>Great read, though. Really got me thinking.</p>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://www.edery.org/2006/09/using-games-to-tap-collective-intelligence/comment-page-1/#comment-13984</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Sep 2006 06:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.edery.org/2006/06/using-games-to-tap-collective-intelligence/#comment-13984</guid>
		<description>Along these lines, and a very simple example, Google just launched an image-labelling game that pairs you with another person online, you both start tagging an image, and the second you both use the same tag, it moves on. Score based on how quickly you do so. Pretty neat.

http://ajaxian.com/archives/google-image-labeler-collaborative-tagging-game

I&#039;d argue this isn&#039;t just wisdom of the crowds - it&#039;s Grunt-work of the Crowds :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Along these lines, and a very simple example, Google just launched an image-labelling game that pairs you with another person online, you both start tagging an image, and the second you both use the same tag, it moves on. Score based on how quickly you do so. Pretty neat.</p>
<p><a href="http://ajaxian.com/archives/google-image-labeler-collaborative-tagging-game" rel="nofollow">http://ajaxian.com/archives/google-image-labeler-collaborative-tagging-game</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;d argue this isn&#8217;t just wisdom of the crowds &#8211; it&#8217;s Grunt-work of the Crowds :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Paolo</title>
		<link>http://www.edery.org/2006/09/using-games-to-tap-collective-intelligence/comment-page-1/#comment-13853</link>
		<dc:creator>Paolo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Sep 2006 12:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.edery.org/2006/06/using-games-to-tap-collective-intelligence/#comment-13853</guid>
		<description>For some time now, L\&#039;Oreal has been running a program for business students worldwide involving an online business game. I think theyve seen some sucesthere. I think it\&#039;s invitational though, and aside from the corporate PR, I reckon it\&#039;s a great recruitment program. If I\&#039;m not mistaken, participation is possibly by invitation. The game\&#039;s here - http://www.e-strat.loreal.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For some time now, L\&#8217;Oreal has been running a program for business students worldwide involving an online business game. I think theyve seen some sucesthere. I think it\&#8217;s invitational though, and aside from the corporate PR, I reckon it\&#8217;s a great recruitment program. If I\&#8217;m not mistaken, participation is possibly by invitation. The game\&#8217;s here &#8211; <a href="http://www.e-strat.loreal.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.e-strat.loreal.com/</a></p>
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