Comments on: Serving Customers Instead of Labeling Them http://www.edery.org/2007/12/serving-customers-instead-of-labelling-them/ For those interested in the business of making great video games. Entrepreneurial spirit a must. Wed, 08 Feb 2012 08:07:36 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Irving Rivas http://www.edery.org/2007/12/serving-customers-instead-of-labelling-them/comment-page-1/#comment-158879 Irving Rivas Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:19:00 +0000 http://www.edery.org/2007/12/serving-customers-instead-of-labelling-them/#comment-158879 Nicely put, I should say. "Companion Mode" instead of "cheating" makes a big difference for play experience, even more so if the game has no tutorial or, as you mentioned, involves playing along with an experienced player. I could also add that it would be good having some kind of "Learning Mode" that gets the difficulty slowly rising till you can beat, say, the easy mode... but that's just another way of implementing the same thing you said. But (and this is the part where I feel I'm being useful here), there are other kind of games that don't need that. Say, games like Mario Party, which need nearly no experience to enjoy. I guess we could say there are hardcore party games and casual party games? I think that can make a difference at the time of design... but that's my personal appreciation of the subject. Nicely put, I should say. “Companion Mode” instead of “cheating” makes a big difference for play experience, even more so if the game has no tutorial or, as you mentioned, involves playing along with an experienced player.

I could also add that it would be good having some kind of “Learning Mode” that gets the difficulty slowly rising till you can beat, say, the easy mode… but that’s just another way of implementing the same thing you said.

But (and this is the part where I feel I’m being useful here), there are other kind of games that don’t need that. Say, games like Mario Party, which need nearly no experience to enjoy. I guess we could say there are hardcore party games and casual party games? I think that can make a difference at the time of design… but that’s my personal appreciation of the subject.

]]> By: Robyrt http://www.edery.org/2007/12/serving-customers-instead-of-labelling-them/comment-page-1/#comment-158851 Robyrt Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:27:42 +0000 http://www.edery.org/2007/12/serving-customers-instead-of-labelling-them/#comment-158851 Not every game gets this wrong. Dance Dance Revolution lets you unlock "cannot fail" after maybe an hour of play, and continually introduces new songs even when playing in that mode. This way, even newbies can feel like they're contributing. Not every game gets this wrong. Dance Dance Revolution lets you unlock “cannot fail” after maybe an hour of play, and continually introduces new songs even when playing in that mode. This way, even newbies can feel like they’re contributing.

]]> By: JT http://www.edery.org/2007/12/serving-customers-instead-of-labelling-them/comment-page-1/#comment-152659 JT Wed, 02 Jan 2008 19:38:00 +0000 http://www.edery.org/2007/12/serving-customers-instead-of-labelling-them/#comment-152659 Guess my comment was too long. Bottom line - my son (and I) would not have had much fun had he not been able to cheat by using me as his navigator. Also, what made this possible was the input device, not the software. Guess my comment was too long.

Bottom line – my son (and I) would not have had much fun had he not been able to cheat by using me as his navigator. Also, what made this possible was the input device, not the software.

]]> By: JT http://www.edery.org/2007/12/serving-customers-instead-of-labelling-them/comment-page-1/#comment-152655 JT Wed, 02 Jan 2008 19:35:32 +0000 http://www.edery.org/2007/12/serving-customers-instead-of-labelling-them/#comment-152655 On a somewhat related tangent...I just finished playing all levels of Star Wars: The Complete Saga on the Wii with my four year old son. We played cooperatively, but not as the developer intended. My son used the Wiimote to jump and slash while I used the nunchuck to walk, switch characters, and use the force/grappling hook. My son is new to games and walking around in-game doesn\'t come naturally to him. It was an amazing experience to be able to coordinate our jumping and attacking to finish each level together. The same can be done with Mario Galaxy and that is next on my list for us. To bring it back to your topic, he could never have played that game without \ On a somewhat related tangent…I just finished playing all levels of Star Wars: The Complete Saga on the Wii with my four year old son. We played cooperatively, but not as the developer intended. My son used the Wiimote to jump and slash while I used the nunchuck to walk, switch characters, and use the force/grappling hook. My son is new to games and walking around in-game doesn\’t come naturally to him. It was an amazing experience to be able to coordinate our jumping and attacking to finish each level together. The same can be done with Mario Galaxy and that is next on my list for us.

To bring it back to your topic, he could never have played that game without \

]]> By: J http://www.edery.org/2007/12/serving-customers-instead-of-labelling-them/comment-page-1/#comment-149045 J Fri, 28 Dec 2007 08:45:14 +0000 http://www.edery.org/2007/12/serving-customers-instead-of-labelling-them/#comment-149045 Well I'm going against everything you said I can see your point yes it's a little difficult to play, it's all about your hand eye coordination really if you got good hand eye coordination it's easy i play with my 6 year old nephew and he plays gh on easy and is really good, i myself play hard, so it's not that they need to bring down the game hardness you just have to practice a lot, what would you do if it was a real guitar play mess up then give up no you would keep trying, now as for RockBand sake if you can't play GH don't even bother with RB because it is more difficult than GH is. Well I’m going against everything you said I can see your point yes it’s a little difficult to play, it’s all about your hand eye coordination really if you got good hand eye coordination it’s easy i play with my 6 year old nephew and he plays gh on easy and is really good, i myself play hard, so it’s not that they need to bring down the game hardness you just have to practice a lot, what would you do if it was a real guitar play mess up then give up no you would keep trying, now as for RockBand sake if you can’t play GH don’t even bother with RB because it is more difficult than GH is.

]]> By: Patrick http://www.edery.org/2007/12/serving-customers-instead-of-labelling-them/comment-page-1/#comment-148996 Patrick Fri, 28 Dec 2007 05:56:48 +0000 http://www.edery.org/2007/12/serving-customers-instead-of-labelling-them/#comment-148996 Seconding GBGames, this needs to go deeper than just re-labeling a mode and making it easier to access than an arcane sequence of button presses (as per your example). We needs games that are symettrical, classless, and fluid to co-op, being positive-sum can help (and is a really wide, really interesting design space) but no a requisite (as long as the goals are implicit rather than explicit). Most drinking games, for example, are zero sum in the micro-loop, explicit goal-oriented part of the game, but overall have an implicit goal (get as drunk as you want, or get other people really drunk) which is afforded an appropriate degree of flexibility. Seconding GBGames, this needs to go deeper than just re-labeling a mode and making it easier to access than an arcane sequence of button presses (as per your example). We needs games that are symettrical, classless, and fluid to co-op, being positive-sum can help (and is a really wide, really interesting design space) but no a requisite (as long as the goals are implicit rather than explicit). Most drinking games, for example, are zero sum in the micro-loop, explicit goal-oriented part of the game, but overall have an implicit goal (get as drunk as you want, or get other people really drunk) which is afforded an appropriate degree of flexibility.

]]> By: NO PULSE http://www.edery.org/2007/12/serving-customers-instead-of-labelling-them/comment-page-1/#comment-148640 NO PULSE Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:12:12 +0000 http://www.edery.org/2007/12/serving-customers-instead-of-labelling-them/#comment-148640 Well, you could always go the EA route and have people \'purchase\' the unlocks. ;) All kidding aside though, there is a disconnect with a lot of games for casual players. Take for instance last night I tried getting my Fiance into Puzzle Quest on the 360. She had a great time, but would have to invest hours upon hours of game play just to catch up to my level 35 character. I let her do a lot of Instant Action matches, but it took her a few levels to finally get a spell that would actually do some damage. We did play some Word Quest(?) and we play Carcassonne a lot as well. I\'m still waiting to see Sally\'s Salon pop up on the XBLA. She played the demo for that like there was no tomorrow. (oh, and she\'s 32) ;) Well, you could always go the EA route and have people \’purchase\’ the unlocks. ;)

All kidding aside though, there is a disconnect with a lot of games for casual players. Take for instance last night I tried getting my Fiance into Puzzle Quest on the 360. She had a great time, but would have to invest hours upon hours of game play just to catch up to my level 35 character.

I let her do a lot of Instant Action matches, but it took her a few levels to finally get a spell that would actually do some damage.

We did play some Word Quest(?) and we play Carcassonne a lot as well. I\’m still waiting to see Sally\’s Salon pop up on the XBLA. She played the demo for that like there was no tomorrow. (oh, and she\’s 32) ;)

]]> By: GBGames http://www.edery.org/2007/12/serving-customers-instead-of-labelling-them/comment-page-1/#comment-148578 GBGames Thu, 27 Dec 2007 16:15:19 +0000 http://www.edery.org/2007/12/serving-customers-instead-of-labelling-them/#comment-148578 It seems that video game developers can stand to take a cue from some board game developers, such as Cranium. As I understand it, Cranium is a game that people can play together and no one feels like a loser. When you play a game like Monopoly, there is a clear winner, and everyone else feels like they are playing catchup...which eventually feels pointless if the winning player has one or more monopolies. Cranium, however, encourages each player to win by offering more ways to "win", and it isn't a zero-sum game. It seems that video game developers can stand to take a cue from some board game developers, such as Cranium. As I understand it, Cranium is a game that people can play together and no one feels like a loser. When you play a game like Monopoly, there is a clear winner, and everyone else feels like they are playing catchup…which eventually feels pointless if the winning player has one or more monopolies. Cranium, however, encourages each player to win by offering more ways to “win”, and it isn’t a zero-sum game.

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